Looking at P&L (Your's or Some Else's) Is Toxic
Okay, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Line Your Own Pocket. So in this one, we're gonna talk about something I see way too many traders with the rise of social media and more and more fall into. And that has a lot to do with kind of comparing yourself and your own trading to other people, which is, I think naturally, we just say, yeah, it's probably not a good thing, but it's probably something you're doing anyway. And, you know, we probably don't even really understand why it's such a bad thing.
Michael:So I'm excited for this one. I think it'll be it'll be fantastic. So Dave, are you out there all the time just measuring at your trading performance based off some guy you saw on a a yacht on on Twitter?
Dave:Yeah. No, I don't do that. And I'll take it a step further. I think during the trading day, you shouldn't even look at your own P and L. I think that's as toxic as looking at somebody else's.
Michael:I I think I probably told this story before. But, yes, I always had if when my monitors were off at the prop firm that I used to work on, there was just all these sticky notes everywhere, and they were blank, or I just wrote little sayings or whatever on them. And they would be positioned so that when I opened up the trading platform throughout the day, they would always hide the p and l numbers because Yeah. I find you it really, really taints what it is you're trying to do and and causes all these emotions that are completely irrational. Whether you're up or down, doesn't matter.
Michael:Right? It's all about, as we know, setup for the long run. So, yeah, that's my very low tech way of doing it that I would back in the day.
Dave:Yeah. So that reminds me back in my trade ideas days, I realized that almost all brokerages, all trading platforms, they spend so much time making that P and L number dance and look pretty. It's kind of crazy the amount of engineering that goes into making that number look good, because they know that's what people are looking at, and they're trying to make you sticky. They're trying to increase engagement with their trading platform when good traders are trying to decrease their engagement with their trading platform. So
Michael:Well, and I think Robinhood's the good the best kind of sign of that because they got some sort of lawsuit or congressional hearing or whatever because after you place a trade, it would throw, like, confetti and and light up your screen, and it was all, like, gamified, and it was their whole way of of kind of pointing people into saying. So there's nothing wrong with having a nice slick interface. It's fine. Right? It's probably better than not for a lot of people.
Michael:But you're right. I find that you log on to a broker app. I have one of my broker apps in front of it. And probably two thirds of the screen is just my equity curve for the last year. And, right, the big number on top of how much money you have and use none of those things are very important.
Michael:Right? If you think if it was purely practical, the bigger buttons would be, you know, entering orders and and doing things like that. But, yeah, a lot of not only time, but just screen real estate is taken up by this is how much you're up or this is how much you're down. And I know it's funny in a lot of these places too. If you do a deposit into your account, it will actually push that equity curve up even though it's not making equity.
Michael:You have to get, like, a secret hidden number to find the actual realized gain realized and unrealized as opposed to just how the value of your account, the dollar value.
Dave:Yeah. That's funny. So I I remember very distinctly an interaction with the CTO or the CEO of Trade Ideas, who we both know, when I was building BrokeragePlus. Boy, we spent, gosh, so much time on that P and L number, making it look pretty, having a little intraday equity curve there that will bounce around in real time. I remember saying, Dan, I don't mind doing all this, but I just want you to know, I really would like to put an option in there to completely hide this.
Michael:Yeah, which from my times in trade ideas, I always did. I just as as much as I could, I just wanted to get I wanted to see, right, the position size and, you know, whether it was long or short or something like everything else, anything green or red that I could possibly hide, I I did.
Dave:Yeah. So what was Dan's answer? He's like, why would anybody want to do that? And that's when I kind of knew that, all right, there's no real trading going on. Real traders want to make money.
Dave:They're not doing this for fun and games. They're not doing it to look at a pretty screen. They're doing this for a living. That's a completely different mindset than what was going on there.
Michael:Yeah. And this is you know, again, it's not like it's new wisdom. Like, when I talk about my days at the prop firm, that was 02/2006. We're talking almost twenty years ago at this point. And it was one of the first things that one of the the big name traders there told me to do.
Michael:He's like, you know, because like everyone, like, oh, I'm struggling with, you know, holding on to winners and blah blah blah. All the new stuff that traders go through. Like, first thing you do is you hide. He's like, here. And he handed me the thing of sticky notes.
Michael:Like, put these over your screen. Yeah. He's like, because what you should be focusing on is the setup. You develop a setup. You have a setup.
Michael:You do the so he's like, for me, I don't even wanna know the name of the company. I don't know wanna know what they do. I don't wanna I'm just looking at the, the chart of the setup that I'm looking for. So, yeah, it's not like this is new, but it's just crazy how you're fighting the headwinds of everybody out there who's trying to design something to make it pretty and easy to look at and and, yeah, show you something that you really don't care about.
Dave:Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about why it's bad to have it showing up there. I think we both agree that it's bad to be looking at it. But let's talk about why.
Dave:I mean, I think the main reason for me is it's sort of like having a bunch of indicators on a chart. The only thing that are going to be good for is for you to override your system and make a mistake. The only time I have an indicator on a chart is if there's something concrete that I'm going to make a decision on based on back tested data as a result of seeing that data point. My charts are very clean, no indicators except for little tiny things that only appear when there's something to actually do. It's the same thing with the P and L.
Dave:If you're seeing your P and L, okay, you see it's up a lot, you see it's down a lot, whatever. Really the only thing you're going to be able to do is screw something up by looking at it. If you've done if you've done the prep work and you you you're trading properly.
Michael:Well, that's the big thing. So I think it's if you're a discretionary trader, right, which isn't, you know, our audience, but for them, I think it's even worse where it's gonna create a lot of emotional bias, and you're gonna the emotional roller coaster that will happen throughout the day, I think, is one of those things that people actually get addicted to. Same way they get addicted to social media that just feeds you, you know, crap until eventually everyone hits a limit every day and goes, oh, jeez, and then puts it down. It's the same thing where you're gonna look at it and you're gonna see a green number, maybe even a big green number, and that's gonna make you feel really good. And then you're gonna continue to chase that.
Michael:And I think so a lot of it is, what you mentioned with, hey, it's gonna cause you to do something to screw something up, like, you know, your average losing trade because that thing hurts you for no reason or vice versa. But the what ends up happening, I think, on top of that is just how much wasted energy. Like, the amount of time I see traders just staring at their p and l tick up and down all every day, I'm like, this is just insanity. And for me, especially in the swing trading world, I I remember I mentored a trader who he's like, oh, you know, I look at it all all day on my phone. Then I asked him when he places his swing trades.
Michael:He's like, oh, you know, usually, like, thirty minutes before the close. I'm like, so just don't don't look at it until thirty. Right? If you've got your stop losses and whatever, he was still a manual trader, but he had this thirty minute time frame that he would enter all the swings for a day. And he messaged me back a little bit later.
Michael:He's like, I feel like just more like better in life. I feel more rested. I feel and I'm like, because you're not screwing with your dopamine up and down all day long. Right?
Dave:Yeah. I mean, you're right. There's a lot of emotions wrapped up in it. You're I mean, ultimately, of course, that's why we're trading to make money. So the P and L is is good for that.
Dave:But you don't wanna be looking at that intraday or during a trade.
Michael:Right.
Dave:Yeah, it's just But you're right. Like, I would imagine it would be completely exhausting to look at it all day, just like you said. I mean, it's just not a productive use of your time. And if it's not you've done the work, that is not your measure of success for the trading day. It's not your P and L that's your measure of success, even if that's ultimately it is.
Dave:But really, the big thing I tell people is when you get to the end of the trading day, your P and L is almost irrelevant. Your real measure of whether you had a good day or not is whether you followed your rules, whether you have a solid system and you followed your system. Even if you lose money, that's a successful day because you followed your system.
Michael:Yeah. And I go a little bit further with that where I use the example that I could walk in every day and slam my forehead on my keyboard, make $10. It doesn't mean I did a good thing. It was just kind of random luck. And you're right.
Michael:Even you know, we're playing probabilities. Even if your system is really, really accurate, it's going to be negative. So you have to just use that as a yardstick. Now, to play my role as devil advocate, I thought of one purpose that somebody may come back to to have their P and L on their screen, and that would be to keep an eye on if something is going horribly wrong. So how would you someone counters that and says, okay, well, I need to keep my P and L up.
Michael:I need to watch my P and L in case, for whatever reason, something gets entered too large or, you know, a stock that I'm holding declares bankruptcy or something midday. What's the argument back to that of I'm monitoring to make sure nothing crazy happens?
Dave:Well, you can look at you can look at your positions and your position sizes and see that without having the
Michael:Mhmm.
Dave:The p and l on there. Also, you should set up your layout so that it's not the default. Like we've talked about defaults before on here, defaults are powerful things. If you have it set up where your P and L is not available right in the default layout, all you got to do is click on another tab and see it if you want to. But as long as that's hidden or you have to take some action to override the default and see it, I think that's really good.
Dave:You can set up all your columns on your position data to see that, okay, yeah, the sky didn't fall. I didn't take a position that was crazy big or crazy small. Things are working and you don't have to look at your P and L to see that.
Michael:Well, that was going to be in case you didn't, I'm pretty sure. I knew you were going to land on it, but in case you didn't. That's what I do as well too. I think adding an exposure or how much you've invested or something like that is a good enough guide because, you know, say your your average trade is you're buying, you know, 5 to $10,000 worth of a stock, and then a 100,000 comes through. You go, okay.
Michael:I gotta do something. So that makes perfect sense as just the way around that because I did get that. I remember I got that pushback once or twice. It's like, so, okay. How do I know if I'm too big or too small in a position?
Michael:I say, yeah. Instead of P and L amount, hide all that and hide everything you can. And instead, just do the what we talked about, which is just here, this is the amount that I'm in the position. And if something crazy happens, then you'll see it there.
Dave:Yeah. So I'm glad you brought this up because if there is a situation where you might want to look at it, and here's I actually was talking with a systematic trader the other day, and we talked about this exact sort of scenario. So he trades like 40 different systems. And so he uses the Strategy Cruncher. He's given me some really good feedback on it.
Dave:So one of the things he's thought about is having some sort of, like looking at his back tested system and looking for intraday P and L, like when the aggregate P and L for all these trades reaches a certain threshold, like maybe it reaches a certain amount of profitability, then take all those trades to just take the profit at that point. Like a system level target.
Michael:Profit target. Yeah, okay.
Dave:I'm not a fan of this, but I can understand if you take a systematic approach like that and you're looking at it over a long period of time and you've come to that conclusion, I could be on board with that. I've looked at this kind of stuff before. It's hard to get confidence in the data from that because these trades are independent. They don't care about each other.
Michael:Hopefully, yeah. They're not They're independent.
Dave:You're making this decision based on this aggregate of an aggregate sort of. So I've never been able to really get behind it. I just know that there's going to be days where you have what seems like a really high P and L number earlier in the day and you wait until the end of the day and it's going to be even way higher than you imagined. To exit partway through the day, knowing that there's that possibility, very good possibility. If you're going to end up with a really high P and L day, at some point during the middle of the day, it's going to seem pretty high, just not as high as the end.
Michael:And and vice versa. I know you didn't mention it, but vice versa to the other side, like people who use intraday stops. And I I get the purpose behind that for maybe discretionary traders that are using it for emotional control. I even get it for prop firms that are using it for risk management. Mhmm.
Michael:But, yeah, some people saying, oh, well, you know, you have if you lose x amount, a thousand dollars worth of day, you gotta you gotta stop. And this is we're talking specifically about day traders here. I don't like that for the same reason is because unless you can go back and you can crunch those numbers and say, was my intraday drawdown? How many of those days that you're down x amount of money if you had just stayed the course till the end of the day, would you be down way less or flat or, you know, even even up? So, yeah, it gets it gets really, really hard.
Michael:Getting the data would be kind of interesting, but you'd have to have enough data to know. And an average, like you mentioned, an average would be a shitty data point. Say, oh, on average, my systems make a thousand bucks a day. So, okay. But how does that average happen?
Michael:Right? Is it normally $200 a day, and then every now and then it's $10,000 a day? Well, then in that case, applying that. So, yeah, there I I I'm not vehemently opposed to it, but I I would need to see the data of, you know, with the MFE and and MAE of of your system over time. It it can be really, really hard to calculate, I think.
Dave:Yeah, I agree. And it adds a level of complication that's not free. Anytime you add any sort of complexity, there's more brain bandwidth to think about it. It's another factor to consider. It's another thing to do testing for.
Michael:Well, and something else can go wrong. Right? It's kinda like how Yeah. The more cars the fancier cars get, the more you know, it seems like every car repair costs you a thousand dollars because there's some sensor. And I always look at it the same way because if something especially for intraday trading, for swing trading and everything, it's not so bad.
Michael:But if something is going bad in a day trade scenario, the more levels of complexity you've put on that, the harder that's gonna be to figure out what broke and where and and how to fix it during the day and during the fly where, you know, if you're doing something that's way simpler, and he seems like he's already got a little bit of complication there running 40 systems, you said. I don't know how much I'd wanna add to that personally.
Dave:Yeah. Well, I mean, they all have edge, so the more systems, the better.
Michael:Well, I just mean how much more complexity in his day. Add as many systems as you like.
Dave:But, you
Michael:know, the monitoring of that. But again, it's the other way around that if someone could present me if if he could there's a a piece of evidence that that that person could give me that say, yeah, you should exit at that time. And that would just be like a chart of, like, you know, a bar chart of all of the max P and Ls throughout the day. And if they all, you know, got around that thousand dollars or whatever we're saying, you know, for the example, then fine. But, yeah, it'd be really hard to really hard to justify.
Dave:Yeah. And that's, you know, when you're trading that many systems and then you you could do that, you could come up with some sort of exit strategy per system, but then you could also do something aggregate across the systems. That's an even further step away from the real crux of what you designed, which is a system based on an unusual signal that's profitable. So that's like one extra layer away from that. It introduces complexity and it's just further away from the real thing that matters, which is that original trading signal.
Michael:So just to continue to play devil's advocate here, right? We talked about not looking at your own P and L and not comparing yourself to your own P and L. And we talked about that a lot. And I think we're both in full agreement there. Now, what about the comparing to other people?
Michael:Right? And they're, know, on mass, probably a bad thing. But what if someone finds a little bit of motivation from that? Right? And they're not looking at like some guru with surrounded by chicks and a Ferrari or whatever, but he finds someone and he sees their equity curve online.
Michael:He goes, man, that guy's doing a lot better than I am. Maybe I should, you know, get my arson gear here. What do you think of that as for potential for comparing yourself to others?
Dave:Yeah, I think that can be useful, but it quickly turns into jealousy and sort of, I would say, sort of a negative mindset where really traders need to be optimistic. And I think that the more optimistic you are, the better. And it's just too easy to look at somebody else's P and L and think, Wow, mine didn't measure up to that, or What did I do wrong? What's he doing right? That just gets you in a bad mindset, I think.
Dave:Remember back in my running days, I was a runner for UNC D1, ran cross country track. No matter how hard you work, no matter how fast you get, there's always going to be somebody that's faster. There's always going to be somebody that's worked harder or had more talent. If you let yourself see somebody that I would see somebody that I knew didn't work as hard as me, but had more talent. They could beat me.
Dave:And that's a hard thing to stomach. But the quicker you can get beyond that and realize that it doesn't really matter what somebody else is doing. It only matters what you're doing. How are you going to be the best trader you can be? That's really what it boils down to.
Dave:We've talked about creating trading groups, having relationships with other traders where you create a trusted trading group to share information. That's a productive mindset. But looking at what somebody else is posting on Twitter and look at how they're bragging about this trade that they make, that's not productive at all. First, I'll let you respond to that. I like this topic and get going for a while.
Michael:Well, the first thing that I'd always say to it is that make sure that if you're comparing yourself, first of all, you're starting with good data. The not even, you know, getting into the right dude might be lying or whatever, But more about, say somebody, I don't know, says, I made $20 today. Right? For real traders, you should always look and say, okay, well, that's a massively incomplete number. Right?
Michael:The how how big is your account? How much did you risk? How much? Right? This is why you'll see a lot of professional traders talking something like our multiples or something.
Michael:Right? I risked
Dave:Yeah.
Michael:One to make two or something. And same with percentage. If you see someone out there and they have an equity curve that looks great and they made a 100% this year, that's also an incomplete number. So that's the first thing I always say to that is make sure that you have the complete number. If somebody that you know is legitimate and you trust, they say, hey, I made 50% this year.
Michael:So great. But what is your, you know, what is your risk portrayed? How because what you make is always just a function of how big your account is and then kind of risk levels too. Right? You need to know all of these parts of the equation to know whether or not it's a good trade.
Michael:Someone comes to you, which is like even on a single trade basis that I made a 100,000 on that trade. Well, did you risk 10,000 on the trade? And it was great. Did you risk a million on the trade? And that I'm sorry.
Michael:That was a a shitty trade. Like, so that's always what I say first when you're comparing to people, right? It's just understand that you're probably only seeing one part of the equation. And if you're only seeing one part of the equation, then it's pretty relevant.
Dave:Yeah. So I think that a lot of traders who end up becoming successful, this is the turning point is really taking ownership of their trades and their trading and being able to not get in a negative mindset when they see what other people are doing and they see somebody posting something on Twitter, they get jealous. When they really take full ownership and understand that they and they alone are responsible for their trading success, that's when you really turn the corner. That's when you aren't tempted, you don't have a negative mindset looking at other people, what they post on Twitter. The first thing you think about is, Okay, that's interesting.
Dave:How can I test that idea? That's new, that's maybe novel. First of all, does it make sense? How would it fit into my trading? Is that something that I should even consider at all?
Dave:If so, okay, how can I make that my own? I just got an email today from somebody that said, Dave, you've got all these strategies. Can't you just give me one of them? Can you just give me the best one? And my answer is always, yeah, I could.
Dave:In fact, I think I would probably make more money in my business doing that, like giving people access to something like Trading Room where I give people some trades. But I had no interest in that, zero interest, because I realized that maybe that would work for the trader in the short term. But really when traders, when you really make it to the next level and really do this for a living, you've taken full ownership and you are responsible for coming up with your own ideas and really making a strategy your own. That doesn't come from getting something from somebody else. That comes from really digging deep into what you're doing and figure out how you can be successful.
Michael:Well, I like what you mentioned there too. And we talked about this when we talked about the group or whatever that you curate. Because you mentioned, oh, if there's somebody out there who posts a chart, that might be a good example of idea generation of something to test. And I I think that's kind of a good way to look at it. Because a couple of people that I follow on Twitter, they do that a lot too, where they'll say, right, this is, you know, the the equity curve for the strategy and some explanation of potentially what the strategy is.
Michael:And, yeah, I I think you are very well served on taking something like that. Right? Writing a note and then adding that to the list of things to then go and take and and build and and do yourself because that ends up being a really good way to potentially generate ideas. Where the problem is if it's the guy that says this is my equity curve and then walks away, it's like, okay, that's not that's not anything that I can do. Like, good for you.
Michael:That's great. But, yeah, some of the the guys that I follow do a great job of like, I was looking at one earlier, and he just had a two charts up. And this is what happens if you buy Bitcoin on, you know, a day that it's up too much, and this is what happens if you buy Bitcoin on days down too much, and just posted those equity curves. Those are the kind of people that I I follow a lot of because I love that because that's something that could start to get the juices moving and and flowing around. And then, you know, down the road, that could lead to a really cool trading strategy on something like that.
Michael:So, yeah, make sure it's not just, bragging in some way that there is some sort of value add that you can take and then put in the work yourself and get into it.
Dave:Yeah. Have I told you my theory about how trading strategies are like running shoes?
Michael:I don't think so. I think I would have remembered to pick you up.
Dave:I spent about a decade coaching cross country at the local high school here with my wife. A lot of times we would have meets or we would go to big meets. And at the end of the meet, very often, I would see running shoes left, just forgotten, left to clean up at the end of a meet. A lot of times they were brand new. And I would think, okay, why are these there?
Dave:Why hasn't somebody stolen these or somebody left them and why didn't somebody take them for themselves? Well, I think there's a good reason for it because think about running shoes. You don't want one that's been worn a whole bunch by somebody else, right?
Michael:Yeah.
Dave:There's a whole range of different sizes and styles that it needs to form to your own foot. Once it's formed to your own foot, it'd be awkward to wear somebody else's at that point that's been formed to their foot. So I think trading strategies are the same thing. If I've got a strategy, yeah, I could give you all the rules. You could start trading it, but it's not going to really be that valuable to you.
Dave:It's only valuable when you make it your own, you form it to your foot, you really internalize and put it through your process for trading. So I think the same way. And I've thought about that analogy a bit. What do you think?
Michael:I think it's a good one. I think the simplest way to hammer that home is like, what if you aren't a day trader, you don't have time to be there day trading or whatever, and someone gave you a day trading strategy? Well, that's not going to be good for you and vice versa from the swing side of things, right? If you don't want to hold stocks overnight, it's not something you're comfortable with, and someone gave you a swing trading strategy. Now if someone gave you an idea, like I just talked about of what happens if you buy Bitcoin on a green day versus a red day.
Michael:Well, that's, again, a little bit better because I could see both a a day trader and a swing trader could taking that starting point and then going down a bit of a rabbit hole and saying, okay, well, if this is that means at some point during the day it turns or whatever, and then having that as a starting point. So it'd be kind of the same urinology of someone giving you a shoe, they say, here's what a shoe looks like. Now go find one that's interesting to you. I think that makes sense.
Dave:Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. I think we've
Michael:I don't know how we
Dave:got our running shoes when we started talking about P and L, but I think this is a good discussion.
Michael:I think to summarize, comparing yourself to anything is probably a bad thing, but comparing yourself to your process is is the key. Right? And make sure that everything you're doing throughout the day when it comes to comparing yourself to different things is done intentionally. Right? The people that you follow on social media, should inspire instead of boast.
Michael:Right? They should, maybe create things to think about instead of whatever. And then for your own stuff and comparing your own p and l, what we talked about is you compare yourself to your plan. If your plan said you should have taken these five trades with this amount of size and this amount of risk, and you did that, then regardless of what happens, you should say, well, that was a good day. And if you're loo just find yourself, I think the biggest takeaway is you find yourself staring at a number tick up and down all day.
Michael:Something has gone wrong in in this Yeah. In this whole thing. You could you could probably find a job somewhere that you would spend most of your day sitting in chair watching a number tick up and down. It'd be way less stressful than it being your net worth.
Dave:Yeah. And if if you do find yourself looking at that number, there could be a good reason you're looking at it. What I would do is take a step back. Why am I looking at that number? Is there a decision I want to make here?
Dave:Is there some way I can create something to go back and do a backtest for so I don't have have this open loop during the day where I need to look at something. What we're really talking about here is the better your backtesting process is, the better you are at evaluating ideas and coming up with ideas, the better and smoother you're going to be during the trading day. The better you're going to be at and quicker you're going to be at looking at something that somebody posts with a kernel of an idea, and you can quickly process that and figure out whether it's BS or there's something there that you can incorporate into what you're doing.
Michael:Yeah. That's right at the end of the day, it it should be anything that the way I look at it as a systematic trader, 90% of my time should be on idea generation. I'd like nine like, I want the vast majority of my time being on, you know, trying to figure out that next strategy. Because once it's figured out and tested and being traded, hopefully by a bot or or whatever, that that whole process should be completely on rails. So I think part of it is filling people's time with busy work.
Michael:Sometimes they feel like they need to do that, and then staring at this number tick up and down feels like you're occupying. But, you know, it may seem kind of innocuous and and harmless even if you're just, especially if you're very good at just letting this the system run when you're staring at the number. But I look at it is that that's you're taking away brainpower that should be generating the the next idea. Right? And you think about it, if your P and L is doing well, then and that number is going up, then great.
Michael:You should be working on the next idea to make even more money. And if the number is going down, the solution is not to stare at the number going down. The solution is get to work on generating the next idea that will hopefully stop it going down. But, yeah, either way, right, make sure you're you're not occupying your brain space with that. It should always be however it is that you generate the next idea, that's where your focus should be.
Dave:Yeah, I agree. And yeah, it reminds me of There's a weekly bike ride I do Wednesday mornings, right smack in the middle of the trading day. I always feel like if there's something I'm too worried about or if I feel the need to be watching trades as they come in, if my mind is occupied on that ride from something about trading, then there's something there that I need to dive into to figure out what I need to do to make it so I can go on this route and not worry. I've got a system that's working automatically. I'm making trades.
Dave:Trades are playing out without me being there to babysit them.
Michael:Yeah. And it could be, you know, could be something as simple as maybe the risk is too big or it could be something as simple as, you know, you you wish you had redundancy. But, again, I think just a way better use of your time would be asking yourself that exact question as opposed to why do I feel the need to sit here? Right? And that should open up the whole pathway.
Michael:If you can answer that question of why do you feel the need to sit here? Well, that answers, I think, a lot of things that could set you down on the pathway to to not be here. So another good one, as always, another good one in the books. Long story short, just follow all the people that have yachts, and eventually, you'll be like one of them. Right?
Michael:So Yeah. That's the takeaway, Michael. Yeah. There we go. The pod I just did that for the AI that will write the podcast notes on the bottom.
Michael:Right? But as always, I'm Michael Noss.
Dave:And I'm Dave Mabe. Hope you join us next week on Line Your Own Pockets.
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