Line Your Own Pockets

Michael: 00:00

Okay, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Line Your Own Pockets. Last episode, we had a massive name on, Brett Steenbarger, someone who me and Dave both very much, highly respect. And like we do after all of our interviews, we like to take an episode and kinda talk about what a big standout was to us, something that we may not have thought that would be super interesting going in. And one thing that I hit on at the end of the episode that I thought was amazing was Brett was always talking about, teams or groups of of people when it came to sharing ideas or or building trading strategies.

Michael: 00:38

And that was something that, probably I don't do enough of. It was very, very interesting. So I I know Dave was kinda thinking the same thing.

Dave: 00:47

Yeah. So I've had this episode on the in my mind for a long time, but this the the interview with Brett just reminded me that and made it this this is a good time to talk about it. Mhmm. There there's a huge value in networking as a trader and interacting with other traders and creating trading groups. It's something I've done throughout my trading career, and there have been some that have worked really well, some that have not worked as well.

Dave: 01:22

It's such an important part of my trading that, you know, I have this, road map that I offer on the website called the get systematic road map. And it's a blueprint for foundational stuff for traders, and and a lot of traders go through it, and a lot of traders are happy with it. I include a section there for how to create your own trading group depending on exactly the skill set that the the trader has. It's just a really important thing a lot of people overlook.

Michael: 01:53

Well, I'd say not only for just for trading, but for a lot of things, right, when it comes to just kinda life in general. It's good to have a a a group of of people that kind of make up maybe for some some drawbacks you have or, you know, help push in areas that you may not be too experienced in. So maybe let's actually just talk about, you know, the the process that you would go through because, what I'm thinking of, and I'm sure we'll touch on, is the massive amount of pitfalls that I think someone could fall into if they if they fell into, maybe a wrong trading group. And and I think it it would kind of behoove the listeners that we talk about kinda what what some of those could be and then and then how you could do that correctly.

Dave: 02:40

Yeah. It's I mean, when you step back and think about coming up with strategies, grading them over time, The more unique your strategy is, the more successful it's gonna be. And it it's really hard to come up with unique ideas. Right? I mean, that's that's just really hard.

Dave: 03:03

Mhmm. And, but part of becoming successful and coming up with unique ideas is, you know, having a thought process, watching the markets in the way that you're uniquely qualified to do, and different and people have different skill sets. And the real value in interacting with others, other trusted people, is that they're gonna have a completely different take than you do. They're gonna have you you know, you don't you may not even realize it, but you've got a whole bunch of blind spots that you're not even aware of. Mhmm.

Dave: 03:40

And other people just have their you know, they have a completely different lived unique experience. They have a a a unique skill set, and they're gonna think about things in a completely different way than you are. And the real value is when you're able to build trust with other people in a way that you start sharing information, and you both understand that there's value here in sharing the information. And that's where some magic happens. So, so, like, have you you said you feel like you don't do this enough.

Dave: 04:18

Do you tell me more about that and and what attempts you've made in the past.

Michael: 04:24

I in the past, when I was more discretionary, you know, I had Skype groups where, you know, people would talk about what they were seeing each day and and, you know, summarize, here's a trade that I took that worked and and that type of thing. And I think that's a really good start because you can see, way other people kind of look at the market. And now currently over my website, I have a a Discord room that people have asked access to. And that helps as well because, you know, people ask questions that sometimes I won't think of or or share things, articles, or something that I won't think of. But, where I think I've been lacking in it is more, on the discretional the discretionary side of things and finding other people with that kind of same interest or passion, other than, of course, this podcast.

Dave: 05:15

Yeah. Well, I I I there's, I think that's a big reason why I decided to start this podcast is it's I want to attract like minded people, smart like minded people, and interact with them. Mhmm. And, I mean, that's a big part of the the way I've lived my life forever is just being as giving as I can be without expecting anything in return. And that is actually the key to networking and creating groups like this, creating you know, building trust with other traders.

Dave: 05:59

And I think trading is such a unique thing because people are so, protective of their edges. There's also a lot of pretenders out there, a lot of people that know how to talk about trading but don't really know how to trade. It's, like, so common, and I could I'm I've had enough experience where I can see right through it pretty quickly.

Michael: 06:24

Mhmm.

Dave: 06:26

And so you can sort of spin your wheels interacting with traders that aren't gonna be helpful to you. So it does take some time and some practice to get to the point where you can build trust with other really good traders that, you know, you can create a group with that you can actually, you know, have enough trust to share with each other, knowing both of you knowing that something good's gonna come of it.

Michael: 07:01

Yeah. I think that the the trust thing is is paramount. Right? And and like you mentioned, there's a lot of less than honest people in our in our industry, unfortunately. But, you know, doing something where, I think you find a group that not only is somewhat trustworthy, but also I think it's really important to find a group that has kind of your same potential style and goals in mind.

Michael: 07:30

You know, for example, when I tried to get back into day trading before I I decided that unless I can do it systematically, it's just not for me. I just hopped into a room of these guys who are doing what a lot of people are doing trading, you know, low flow momentum, that type of stuff. And, you know, the the group works and, you know, they they're good traders and everything, but it didn't matter because it just didn't fit my trading style and personality type and all of that. So, you know, while you're finding a group of people that are interesting to you and and, you know, that you trust and that you can share back ideas back and forth, make sure you're first starting at one that is trading in a style that makes somewhat sense to you. Right?

Michael: 08:16

To to use the extremes. Right? If you're looking to be a day trader, you're not gonna go join a, you know, a fundamental form of a group of people who are talking about, you know, the next deep value stock to buy. Right? That that's an extreme way to look at it, but it's the same kinda thing.

Michael: 08:29

Don't try to, you know, shoehorn yourself into what you think is gonna be the best trading style out there. You know, take a second and say, this is the the goals I have for trading. This is what I wanna do. This is where I think my personality matches. And then try to find people that are gonna be somewhat similar to that, again, time frame security type methodology when it comes to trading.

Dave: 08:52

Yeah. It's a big part, you know, a a big part of all this is building trust with other people. So it's not just, you know, let's go this is a trustworthy group. It's really about building trust over time with people, and that's really that doesn't happen overnight. You have to and the the the best way to do it is the the problem is most people are takers when they should be givers.

Dave: 09:23

So when you interact with other people, your first thought should be, okay. How can I help this other person? Is there some way how can I make this person's life better? How can I share something about what I'm doing that would improve this person's trading? And that should be your first thought.

Dave: 09:43

It should not be, oh, how you know, what can I get out of this person? If that's your attitude and that's the way you think about things, it's not gonna work. You're not gonna be able to build trust with somebody in in a way that you can really create something special. Yeah. So that that's really it's a it's a completely different mindset than most people have.

Dave: 10:07

So the the real opportunity here is since most people are like that, it's not hard to stand out by just being a default giver.

Michael: 10:19

Well, no. I I think that's the same for content. So I get a lot of I actually just had a conversation recently about with a CMT, smaller smaller guy who, you know, reached out to me and said, hey. You got a a decent following and all of that. And then how do you suggest going about doing that?

Michael: 10:36

And and his main goal was how do I get a job as a CMT somewhere? And the first thing I said is is start putting your work out there, like, for grab a substack, grab a whatever, and just start writing about your thoughts on the market, about, you know, things that you're seeing, about tests you're running, whatever it is. I said, just throw it out there. And I said, no. Read it in the beginning.

Michael: 10:58

And then a couple people will read it, and then eventually it just kind of snowballs in. I look at it the same way as if you're, you know, say you're someone you're like, I don't even know where to find a group. I don't even know where to get started. Well, the beauty with the Internet is if you just start creating content and just hucking out the ether, at some point, that group, you'll find those people. People will will chat with you.

Michael: 11:22

And if I don't even know if these if forms still exist or if I'm just old as hell. But, you know, if it's a form or something that you're trying to talk on, well, just like Dave said, just put things out there. You know, just start throwing out ideas and and things that you're talking about, as opposed to, you know, lurking on the forum and and asking people. I think the more the more content you just put out there, then eventually, somebody is gonna find something that resonates with them, and then they'll start a conversation, and and you you can go from there. But, we live in a a very, I think, easy time to find those people because we have these really advanced, algorithms that are are doing it for us.

Michael: 12:01

Right? So just that's always my suggestion. It's just sit down, and I think it actually makes you a better trader too. Just putting your thoughts out there. It's it's like journaling, but journaling out into the ether.

Michael: 12:12

But, that's kind of my biggest suggestion for anyone who's looking to find. If if you're not too sure, where to go looking, just right. You're putting out a little beacon, and eventually someone will find it, and they'll be interested in what it is you're doing.

Dave: 12:26

Yeah. I mean, if you go back to last week's interview with Brett, he a huge part of his trading is writing. If you go back and look, just look at trader feed and all the stuff he's written over the years. I mean, it's incredible the amount of stuff he's written and all that he's doing for free. Right?

Dave: 12:47

Mhmm. Because it helps them, and it helps attract, people to him by people that read and say, man, this this is great stuff. So, yeah, I think that's, I think that's really a great thing to do.

Michael: 13:00

And I bet you it's one of those things that, it's it's very unquantifiable, but, it's the same I look at it with myself and my YouTube channel and everything. That everything that I've kinda gotten to this point is because of that. But I can't really track any of it. I can't say, you know, I I I've made this dollar amount from my YouTube channel because I did, like, $20 a month from YouTube ad revenue is what I but, you know, it is the thing that I put out content on. And from that, I've met people and I go to conferences.

Michael: 13:32

People like, oh, I saw you on YouTube. And it just it it will start in a way that you you won't ever see coming, but just eventually, you have enough content out there that it just kinda grows from there. And I think that, yeah, Brett's a perfect example that, you know, maybe if he didn't do this amount of prolific writing back in the day, he wouldn't be doing all of this, you know, hedge fund type work from there. Because who knows? Maybe a young trader started reading his blog and then got hired at a hedge fund and then say, okay.

Michael: 14:01

We need a psychologist around here. Well, I read this guy's right? You know, you just never know how these these links are gonna take place.

Dave: 14:07

Yeah. And, you know, this is to build trust with other traders in a way that's gonna create something that's gonna be meaningful, it takes time. Like, you're not gonna try this over a weekend, and then it doesn't work. And you're like, well, that's it. Mhmm.

Dave: 14:23

It takes a concerted effort, just like the content you create, just like the content Brett creates. It's it's gonna take a concerted effort. You you sort of have to make it a way of life. And, the so I'm reading this book now. It's called Give and Take by Adam Grant.

Dave: 14:44

It's a really good book. And he talks about the difference between givers and takers. And there's been studies done about, you know, comparing givers and takers, and the givers come out on top. They're more successful in life. They're happier.

Dave: 15:07

And it's it's not it's not that people give knowing they're gonna get something in return. It's not a quid pro quo thing. They're really doing it to expecting nothing in return and getting value from helping other people. I mean, that's why that's why I do the coaching that I do. That's why I do, you know, I do free calls, for people on my newsletter so they could schedule a free call.

Dave: 15:40

And I the biggest thing I get out of it, I just like helping people. And the you know, not only do I like the calls, but what I really like is multiple times I've heard few months later after I've had a call with somebody where they said, hey, Dave. I just wanted to give you an update. That call was great. Here's what I've done since then, and I've got these models running.

Dave: 16:07

There's a a guy that at at S&B that just reached out to me a couple weeks ago and said, Dave, I've got 5 models running, and I can tie it right back to that conversation we had in New York over coffee. Awesome. I I love that. So Mhmm. Yeah.

Dave: 16:22

If you, and I'm serious about it. If anybody wants to do a free call with me, just, shoot me an email at dave@davemabbe.com. I mean, I'll be honest. I make plenty of money trading. I don't really need to do the coaching thing, but I just love doing it.

Dave: 16:39

I just love helping people.

Michael: 16:42

And I I you know, it's the same I think it's the same thing from my my YouTube channel. Right? I think you put out there. If you have, an interest and you talk about that, people know that you're interested in it. I think the you know, you said it yourself that that you can see through some of it.

Michael: 16:59

I think that happens when it's somebody's trying to fake an interest, and they're trying to to push that on you. They they got involved in trading or or something or or content creating around trading, because they, they think that that's where the money is. Right? So then everything behind that tries to get forced and and, you know, pushed out. Whereas, like myself, I very much enjoy teaching.

Michael: 17:25

Like you, you enjoy the 1 on 1 conversations. I think that ends up becoming way more clear when it comes from somewhere that you you enjoy. So I I guess if you're looking to get involved in a club, then, you know, find someone who you can tell that enjoyment from. If you're looking to have people kind of attracted to you, and I would I would argue to everybody to start putting out content, to start find something you're interested in, some aspect of it. The stuff I'm reading on Substack now from quantitative traders that is coming, which amazing.

Michael: 17:56

I got, like, 4 or 5 I need to show you, Dave, that are just great. And I don't know anything about these people, but it'd be the same thing. If I ran into one of these guys at a at a conference or or something like that, we can go from there. There was one that I was just reading this random substack who ended up doing, crypto in the real test. We talked about this another one, the the back tester I have.

Michael: 18:20

Just start up conversation. I was like, hey, man. Do you have any content on on how you are doing this? And he sent it over to me, and I thought it was great. And I shared it with my audience.

Michael: 18:29

And and, again, it becomes very serendipitous if you just start just doing what you enjoy and and instead of just doing it kind of in private and trying to keep everything secret, you do it out in the public where people can see.

Dave: 18:43

Yeah. For sure. Yes. Totally. The so there's one thing one other thing that stuck out at me about what Brett was talking about.

Dave: 18:53

When he was talking about the hedge funds and how they have these teams of client guys with different roles, our first thought is, wow, it's a huge organization to have all these different roles, different things for, you know, basically creating a trading strategy. My next thought was, gosh. That would be a huge bureaucracy. Dealing with all these people. You know, I've been the CTO of Trade Ideas.

Dave: 19:24

I've managed teams of developers. It gets really complicated because there's people involved. They have opinions, works. It it just becomes really complicated. So it but it was just just hard for me to imagine.

Dave: 19:41

There's gotta be some waste in some of that, bureaucracy. It just seems it's hard for me to imagine doing that. I mean, so for example, I've I've thought many times about hiring some developers to help me work on my trading strategies because I think I could I could do things even faster. I could be more productive. I've thought about hiring some interns.

Dave: 20:03

I mean, I could I've I've forgot the wherewithal to do that. You know, I've I've worked with developers before. I've managed them, so I think I could do that. But I always there's just it's just so complicated and unnecessarily complex to me that that that just it it struck me that, gosh, there's this whole layer of bureaucracy that just it would be really hard for me to justify that.

Michael: 20:32

It, so I worked in the in the hedge fund space for about 10 years. Right? And and what I would do was, this was around Bernie Madoff's time, so no one trusted anyone. So we were kind of an independent third party. So an investor would say, hey, I'm thinking of investing in x y z hedge fund.

Michael: 20:49

I wanna send you guys in to take a look at them. Right? So myself from a trading background would take a look at what they were doing, making sure it wasn't like Bernie Madoff, which was just, like, you know, complete nonsense. So I would, you know, look at, what they were trading. Back then, it was a lot of really weird exotic.

Michael: 21:07

Remember 2,008. Right? The CDOs and CMOs and all this craziness. And then we had an accountant and a lawyer there, and we'd all go and and look and make sure they were legitimate. And then try to take what the risk of the fund would be compared to what the client was was normally trading.

Michael: 21:22

And you wanna talk about waste. Holy smokes. Every one of them had the nicest office that you could ever see. They they had, you know, a 100 Bloomberg terminals. The the secretary on the way in had a Bloomberg terminal.

Michael: 21:37

The the janitor probably had access to a Bloomberg terminal, and it was it was a 100% right. And it's also why I always talk about how a trader's edge is retail traders is our speed because you're right. The the bureaucracy to change or to do anything there is is so huge. You would have these, you know, these floors of traders, and it's like, okay. We're gonna buy a 100,000,000 shares of Apple today, and you'd have 5 guys working on that where they would all be trying to, you know, you know, pick the best price and not move the price and then all of this.

Michael: 22:11

But yeah. So just it does happen, and it is just insanely massive industry. But when you have a couple $1,000,000,000 fund and whether you make or lose money, you're taking 2% of that fund every year. You know, you get to justify that and some of the fancy stuff. But just look at that, and and don't think, to our audience of, oh, man.

Michael: 22:32

If these guys have all this money to throw around with massive groups of traders, there's no way I'll compete. We just get to compete much differently. We we don't need to play the same game there. We can, you know, it's gonna take them a month to make a move, and we can do it in a second. Right?

Michael: 22:48

So you we just need to know that, yeah, the world out there is crazy when it comes to these things, but, it gives us our advantages that we need to focus on.

Dave: 22:58

That's a great point. I love that point because you're totally right. Yeah. That's, I can imagine some of our listeners getting that impression when we talk about the how big a hedge fund is, and they have all these roles. Like like Brett said that they're you know, there's a guy that does just data preparation.

Dave: 23:13

Gosh. That's that's I'm I'm sure there's there's roles for everything, but you're totally right. As a retail trader, it is absolutely an advantage for you not to have the requirements that they have. Like, they've got their whole goal is to raise money, a lot of money, put that money to work. When you have to put that amount of money to work, it's like an elephant jumping into a swimming pool.

Dave: 23:42

There's no way you can everybody's gonna notice, like, there's gonna be water splashing everywhere. So

Michael: 23:48

Well, I mean, you would see that in the like, so we we were a very small shop. Our our whole thing is that we would take the people that the big guys wouldn't take because we were like a boutique shop. And I saw this over and over again. It was, small hedge fund with a very interesting idea, a very interesting trading style, starts out maybe 1 or 2 guys, maybe a couple $1,000,000 worth of asset. It has great, great returns, you know, 40, 50% gains for a number of years, doing amazing, then all of a sudden raises 1,000,000,000 of dollars and opens up a giant shop.

Michael: 24:23

And those returns barely beat the market, and then the whole thing implodes. And it's Yeah. You know, I remember seeing that. And, again, that was amazing, experience for me. And just looking at that over and over again and say and almost imagine myself as that trader and being, like, imagine if he had just kept doing what he was doing.

Michael: 24:40

Right? It's and just continued to make these these great returns and maybe they did fall off at some point, but he never got those big expenses that he had to worry about and just continued to, you know, I guess, keep his team, keep his group kinda small and and manageable because you're right. As soon as you get big enough, then you're, there there's no way you're able to keep that edge that you had before.

Dave: 25:06

Yeah. I've I've been approached many times over the years to, friends, colleagues, people I run into asking if I would trade their money or if they could give me some money to trade. And I've never I've never really been tempted, but I'm so glad that I've never done that. I mean, it's just your life gets complicated really fast, and, you know, I like having, you know, low requirements. You just have a lot more flexibility.

Dave: 25:42

Life is a lot more easier that way.

Michael: 25:44

Yeah. Well and even, my buddy, JC, the reason he sells research now instead of I think he did, funds back in the day. He was like, listen, you underperformed the spy for 1 quarter and you spend your entire day on the phone with people. Right? And it's just like, just, you know, leave me alone.

Michael: 26:02

I've got a a 1000000 charts to look at. And it's the same thing is that once as things get bigger, it's not only the size of the funds that you're allocating, but all of a sudden now you're not, focusing on the thing that you're doing, which to bring it back to the groups, I think that that's a huge thing that you wanna pay attention for is you you need to come in with whatever it is that is, your passion and your skill and the thing you're gonna you're gonna use and then find people to kinda compliment that. Right? Like, if I was if I were to need to find someone for my business, if you go look at my website, it'd be someone with some sort of graphical knowledge because I it looks gross. I obviously have none.

Michael: 26:38

The, the, finding that person that helps you focus on what it is that you do better and finding that group that you all kinda can focus on what it is that you do well, I think that's way better than finding a bunch of people with, you know, similar skills that are are are are just gonna then need to split your focus into a bunch of different things.

Dave: 27:04

Yeah. So a couple thoughts about that. I like that you said complimentary because you you don't want to find people that are exactly like you. You won't find people with complimentary skills, not your exact skill set. So, you know, you mentioned before, you know, find you're trying to find traders that in general do, you know, trade the same sort of thing that you do, like day trading versus swing trading or whatever.

Dave: 27:32

But you don't want somebody that's doing exactly the same thing and has the exact same skill set. You want something that's complimentary. That's where it's it's easy for both of you to see how, valuable a relationship could be then because you each bring different strengths that makes the group better.

Michael: 27:51

Well, and I think we're talking everything we're talking about could be applied to business as well. Right? You know, again, if I'm looking to if I'm looking to open up a business where I sell my CMT analysis on the markets. Right? Well, I don't need another CMT.

Michael: 28:07

Right? I need someone with business, you know, and selling and accounting and all that kind of stuff. So I think that's another thing is, you know, you are opening a business when you're getting into trading. So just think of it as opening a business, and who would you want to surround yourself in order to make that business better?

Dave: 28:27

Yeah. So that that there's one other analogy that I think really drives the point home here about the value that you can get from these. So as I've mentioned before on here, I'm a cyclist and a and a runner. I got into cycling sort of a little bit later in life, but, so there's a really good analogy with cycling. So there's a a Wednesday ride here in Chapel Hill that I do.

Dave: 29:00

This is the fastest ride in town. And on the weekends, there's a ride that happens where it's basically a race every weekend. But on Wednesday, it's a different ride. It's called the throwdown ride, and some of the people that probably listen to this, podcast are gonna recognize it. It's a cooperative ride where you're it's called a pace line, where you're in one line.

Dave: 29:26

There's usually 10 or 12 of us. And the whole goal is for the whole group to get through 1 hour. It's about 27 miles, and we try to get it done in an hour. So we're going all out. You spend some time on the front.

Dave: 29:44

That's where the hardest part's gonna be, and then you float back to the end. And if you're not a cyclist, it's hard to really understand how the draft works. Like, if you're right behind somebody in a Peloton, you're doing a fraction of the work that that the person in front of you is doing. So the person on the very front that's cutting the wind

Michael: 30:10

Mhmm.

Dave: 30:10

They're doing probably 50% more work than everybody else in the group. So there's sort of a protocol, a systematic way to ride that the entire group can go really fast if you work together. And the beauty of it is some riders on this ride are way better than me. Some of the riders on this ride are way worse. But because, of the draft, you can all work together shooting for this common goal.

Dave: 30:48

So it's a really and the whole group goes probably 30% faster than you could ride alone. Mhmm. And it's really fun. I mean, everybody's on the limit, going as hard as they can with this one focus goal in mind. And the same can be true with these trading groups.

Dave: 31:08

If you get the right situation, you'll come up with ideas that you will have never thought of before on your own. Like, never in a 1000000 years would you come up with some ideas that you'd be able to come up with with the group of, you know, a a a like minded group of traders that you cultivate and work to find and

Michael: 31:32

create. And by doing that, I'm sure you are able to push your own limits a little bit. Right? And you're able to get get even better, and that's that's the biggest the biggest thing. And and the last thing I I personally want to leave people with is just understand that as hard as it is, sometimes it'll be time to leave groups.

Michael: 31:51

Right? And and you you need to make sure that you, you understand that as well. Right? We talked about all the positives of the groups. I think we definitely sold that, correctly.

Michael: 32:00

But it's gonna be very important that you, understand that, you know, if there's a time where you're feeling that, like Dave was saying that that you're the giver and everyone else is takers. Right? We've all been in university and you you go, you have a group project, and you got that one guy who just comes in and signs his name at the end and away you go. If you start to feel that that happens too much, then you're not getting that benefit that Dave was just talking about of being able to go kinda fast through the group. And in his example, there is someone who never took the lead.

Michael: 32:33

Well, that person's not really benefiting that particular exercise. So, you know, don't be a jerk about it. Say, hey, man. You know, maybe he's got a new baby or he's got something going on with his life or something. But, you know, just set barriers to make sure that you're being part of the group.

Michael: 32:49

You're you're doing what you need, but you're not just kinda giving yourself endlessly to something that's not giving back.

Dave: 32:55

Totally. Yeah. And sometimes these groups are transient outside groups that have worked really well for a couple years, but then it became clear that all, you know, motivations change Mhmm. And the group dissolves. So, yeah, you're you're totally right.

Dave: 33:11

Like, think about, you know, the lifetime of a group is, you know, sometimes short. There's this reminds me of a really good book that, I I I think was awesome and sort of related to this. It's called The Art of Gathering. We'll put these in the show notes. It's by Priya Parker.

Dave: 33:32

It's a really good book about creating groups, creating events. A big part of what she emphasizes is excluding people. Like, who you exclude from a group is very important to the future of of the group itself and really creates, helps create the group with a purpose. And that sounds kinda harsh, but, it's it's worth thinking about and worth, reading that book. I think it's a great one.

Dave: 34:04

It had a big impact on me. I think I read it 2, 3 years ago. That's a really good one. One that I read several years ago, probably maybe even 20 years ago, is a book called Never Eat Alone by Keith Ferrazzi. It's a really good book.

Dave: 34:20

It's about networking in general, being a giver, you know, giving before you you know, well before you ask somebody for something is always a valuable you you know, a a much more valuable way to do it than, you know, starting with an ask Yeah. Or you give something. I mean, that's just common sense, but you'd be surprised just how many people are takers. And that's you're gonna end up in a lot of dead ends that way.

Michael: 34:47

Yeah. As someone with with kinda ending following online, you get it. But as someone who has got a an okay little following online, you get a lot of probably couple DMs a day of, hey. You know, help me be a good trader. I'm like, well, I don't know.

Michael: 35:02

I don't have any magic bullet for you. I'm sorry. And if I, you know, responded to all of them, it wouldn't have any time in the day to to kinda focus on my own. So, so that was good. And then, you know, we chose this topic to hammer on, but there's a lot of good stuff in that interview.

Michael: 35:18

So if you're watching this episode and you haven't seen the Brett Steenberger, interview, make sure you go back and check that one out next. So, anything else to cover, Dave?

Dave: 35:29

I think we've we've hit this topic pretty well. Like, I like this I like this topic. We could probably I don't know. I bet we could do 2 or 3 other episodes on this. But, yeah, I think that's a good place to end it right there.

Michael: 35:43

Okay. Well, we always seem to end a podcast with more podcasts than it doesn't ever seem like we're getting through stuff. We're just adding more stuff to do, which is great. Because, again, I'm I'm having a lot of fun doing this. I appreciate you all for tuning in and and the feedback that we get.

Michael: 35:59

I'm Michael Noss.

Dave: 36:01

I'm Dave Mabe, and we'll see you next week on Line Your Own Pockets.